[PYTANIE] Czy Archaeopteryx wymarĹ bezpotomnie?
: 13 lipca 2009, o 10:54
Czy z archeopteryksa wyewoluowaĹy jakieĹ inne zwierzÄta czy teĹź byĹ ĹlepÄ
uliczkÄ
ewolucji?
z nami przeniesiesz się w czasie...
https://forum.dinozaury.com/
tego po prostu stwierdziÄ siÄ nie da, moĹźna tylko zakĹadaÄ czy miaĹ potomkĂłw czy nie jednak zawsze znajdzie siÄ jakieĹ "ale"Paleoleo pisze:Czy z archeopteryksa wyewoluowaĹy jakieĹ inne zwierzÄta czy teĹź byĹ ĹlepÄ uliczkÄ ewolucji?
Dawid Mika pisze:Archeopteryks z pewnoĹciÄ nie jets przodkiem dzisiejszych ptakĂłw. MĂłgĹ daÄ poczÄ tek jakieĹ innemu przedstawicielowi Archaeopterygiformes, ktĂłre wymarĹo oczywiĹcie bezpotomnie.
Ale potencjalny potomek tego dinozaura nie zachowaĹ siÄ w zapisie kopalnym.
Nie jest pewne, i pewnie nigdy nie bÄdzie. ZwracaĹ juĹź na to uwagÄ hanzs powyĹźej i ja w pierszym poĹcie TUBartekChom pisze:A czy jest pewne, Ĺźe archeopteryks nie byĹ przodkiem wspĂłĹczesnych ptakĂłw?
Po co nam nazwy o nieokreĹlonym zasiÄgu (a moĹźe masz jakÄ Ĺ definicjÄ w zanadrzu?)Dawid Mika pisze:Archaeopterygiformes
Rozumiem. Zawsze moĹźna sie pytaÄ, na ile jest to pewne.nazuul pisze: Nie jest pewne, i pewnie nigdy nie bÄdzie. ZwracaĹ juĹź na to uwagÄ hanzs powyĹźej i ja w pierszym poĹcie TU
nazuul pisze: Archaeopteryx jest blisko hipotetycznego przodka wspĂłĹczesnych ptakĂłw, wiÄc mĂłgĹ byÄ ich przodkiem (choÄ to pewnie maĹo prawdopodobne - zapis kopalny jest przeraĹźajÄ co niekompletny!).
DziÄkujÄ.nazuul pisze: Co do przetĹumaczenia - przerasta moje siĹy, ale pierwsze to jakeiĹ wyrostki na Ĺźebrach, a drugie to koĹÄ ĹźyczeĹ
Czyli piszÄ , Ĺźe archaeopteryks tego nie miaĹ, a na angielskiej Wikipedii sÄ piÄknie narysowane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FurculaTomasz Singer pisze: Cecha 80
Furcula (wideĹki) : (0) nieobecne (osobne koĹci obojczykowe), (1) zroĹniÄte (?), (2) z wydĹuĹźonym wyrostkiem.
WydajÄ mi siÄ, Ĺźe autor tego szkicu mĂłgĹ nie znaÄ aĹź tak bardzo szczegĂłĹowo ukĹadu szkieletowego archeopteryksa albo opieraĹ siÄ wĹaĹnie na nieaktualnych juĹź informacjach. Poza tym to Wiki, a nie wszystko (w niektĂłrych dziedzinach nauki prawie nic) jest dokĹadnie opisane i to w dodatku bez bĹÄdĂłw merytorycznych.BartekChom pisze:CoĹ Ĺşle rozumiem, na Wikipedii narysowali wymyĹlonÄ koĹÄ, czy ktĂłreĹ informacje sÄ nieaktualne?
Referred- (Burgermeister Muller Museum coll.; Solnhofen specimen; sixth specimen; holotype of Wellnhoferia grandis) partial skull (~65 mm), sclerotic plates, partial mandible (~61 mm), axis, third cervical vertebra (~9 mm), partial fourth cervical vertebra, cervical ribs, partial eleventh dorsal vertebra, twelfth dorsal vertebra (~8 mm), thirteenth dorsal vertebra (~8 mm), fourteenth dorsal vertebra (8.8 mm), dorsal ribs, gastralia, (sacrum ~28 mm) partial first sacral vertebra, second sacral neural spine, third sacral neural arch, fourth sacral transverse process, fifth sacral neural arch, first caudal vertebra (5.4 mm), second caudal vertebra (6.2 mm), third caudal vertebra (6.7 mm), fourth caudal vertebra (6.5 mm), fifth caudal vertebra (7.5 mm), sixth caudal vertebra (9 mm), seventh caudal vertebra (9.7 mm), eighth caudal vertebra (9.5 mm), ninth caudal vertebra (13 mm), tenth caudal vertebra (14.2 mm), eleventh caudal vertebra (14.3 mm), twelfth caudal vertebra (15.5 mm), thirteenth caudal vertebra (15 mm), fourteenth caudal vertebra (~11 mm), partial fifteenth caudal vertebra (~11 mm), chevrons, incomplete scapulae (~51 mm), coracoids (24.5 mm), partial furcula, incomplete humeri (83 mm), partial radii (~69 mm), partial ulnae (~72 mm), partial metacarpals I, phalanges I-1 (28, 28.4 mm), manual unguals I (17.5 mm), incomplete metacarpals II (~36.6 mm), phalanges II-1 (20.1 mm), phalanges II-2 (27.5 mm), manual unguals II (17.8 mm), incomplete metacarpals III, phalanx III-1 (8 mm), phalanges III-2 (6.5 mm), phalanges III-3 (17.8 mm), manual unguals III (12 mm), manual claw sheaths, ilia (~38 mm), pubes (59.3 mm), partial ischium (~24.5 mm), femora (~67 mm), tibiae (92 mm), fibula (82.4 mm), astragali, calcanea, distal tarsals, metatarsals I (9.9 mm), phalanx I-1 (11 mm), pedal ungual I (~9.8 mm), metatarsus (II 45 mm, III ~47.5 mm, IV 45 mm), phalanges II-1 (12 mm), phalanges II-2 (12.5 mm), pedal unguals II (~14 mm), phalanges III-1 (one proximal; 13.7 mm), phalanx III-2 (11.8 mm), phalanx III-3 (10.5 mm), pedal ungual III (~10 mm), phalanx IV-1 (10 mm), phalanx IV-2 (8.5 mm), phalanx IV-3 (9.5 mm), pedal ungual IV (~12.6 mm), metatarsal V (10.5 mm), pedal claw sheaths, remiges (Wellnhofer, 1988)
(BMNH 37001; London specimen; holotype of Griphosaurus; holotype of Griphosaurus problematicus; holotype of Griphornis longicaudatus; holotype of Archaeopteryx macrura; holotype of Archaeopteryx oweni; proposed neotype of Archaeopteryx lithographica) (.46 m, 370 g) premaxilla, maxillary fragment, partial quadrate, braincase, ninth cervical vertebra, tenth cervical vertebra, first dorsal vertebra (~7 mm), second dorsal vertebra, third dorsal vertebra, fourth dorsal vertebra, fifth dorsal vertebra, sixth dorsal vertebra (~7 mm), seventh dorsal vertebra (~7 mm), eighth dorsal vertebra, ninth dorsal vertebra, tenth dorsal vertebra, eleventh dorsal vertebra (5.5 mm), twelfth dorsal vertebra (5.5 mm), thirteenth dorsal vertebra (5.5 mm), dorsal ribs, gastralia, (sacrum- ~33 mm) first sacral vertebra, second sacral vertebra, third sacral vertebra, fourth sacral vertebra, fifth sacral vertebra, fifth caudal vertebra (5.4 mm), fourth caudal vertebra, fifth caudal vertebra, sixth caudal vertebra (6 mm), seventh caudal vertebra (6.5 mm), eighth caudal vertebra (8 mm), ninth caudal vertebra (~10.5 mm), tenth caudal vertebra (~10.5 mm), eleventh caudal vertebra (11.7 mm), twelfth caudal vertebra (12.3 mm), thirteenth caudal vertebra (13 mm), fourteenth caudal vertebra (12.3 mm), fifteenth caudal vertebra (12.5 mm), sixteenth caudal vertebra (12.4 mm), seventeenth caudal vertebra (11.4 mm), eighteenth caudal vertebra (11.4 mm), nineteenth caudal vertebra (10.5 mm), twentieth caudal vertebra (9.3 mm), twenty-first caudal vertebra (8.5 mm), twenty-second caudal vertebra (7 mm), twenty-third caudal vertebra (4.3 mm), scapulae (46 mm), coracoid, furcula, humeri (75 mm), radii (65 mm), ulnae (67.5 mm), radiale, ulnare, semilunate carpal, distal phalanx I-1, manual ungual I, metacarpal II (34.4 mm), metacarpal III, manual phalanx, ilia (38 mm), pubes (51.5 mm), ischium (~25.5 mm), femora (60.5 mm), tibiae (80.5 mm), astragalus, metatarsal I fragment, phalanx I-1 (8.8 mm), pedal ungual I (~6.8 mm), metatarsal II (~40 mm), phalanx II-1 (11 mm), phalanx II-2 (11 mm), pedal ungual II (~11 mm), metatarsal III (44 mm), phalanx III-1 (12.7 mm), phalanx III-2 (11 mm), phalanx III-3 (~9.5 mm), pedal ungual III (~14 mm), distal phalanx IV-3, phalanx IV-4 , pedal ungual IV (~11 mm), metatarsal V (7.9 mm), remiges, retrices (Meyer, 1861b)
WiÄcej na:(BSP 1999 I 50; Munich specimen; Solnhofen-Aktien-Verein specimen; seventh specimen; holotype of Archaeopteryx bavarica) partial skull (~45 mm), mandibles (40 mm), atlas, axis, third cervical vertebra, fourth cervical vertebra, fifth cervical vertebra, sixth cervical vertebra, seventh cervical vertebra, eighth cervical vertebra, ninth cervical neural spine, tenth cervical neural spine, cervical ribs, first dorsal neural spine, partial second dorsal vertebra, third dorsal neural spine, seventh dorsal neural spine, eighth dorsal vertebra, ninnth dorsal vertebra, tenth dorsal vertebra, eleventh dorsal vertebra, twelfth dorsal vertebra, thirteenth dorsal vertebra, dorsal ribs, gastralia, (sacrum 22 mm) first sacral centrum, second sacral centrum, fifth sacral centrum, first caudal vertebra, second caudal vertebra, third caudal vertebra, fourth caudal vertebra, fifth caudal vertebra, sixth caudal vertebra, seventh caudal vertebra, eighth caudal vertebra, ninth caudal vertebra, tenth caudal vertebra, eleventh caudal vertebra, twelfth caudal vertebra, thirteenth caudal vertebra, fourteenth caudal vertebra, fifteenth caudal vertebra, sixteenth caudal vertebra, seventeenth caudal vertebra, eighteenth caudal vertebra, nineteenth caudal vertebra, twentieth caudal vertebra, twenty-first caudal vertebra, chevrons, scapulae (34.5 mm), coracoids (15 mm), partial furcula, humeri (~55 mm), radii (53 mm), ulnae (53 mm), ulnare, semilunate carpal, distal carpal III, metacarpal I (7 mm), phalanges I-1 (20 mm), manual unguals I (9.5 mm), metacarpals II (one distal; 25 mm), phalanges II-1 (12.5 mm), phalanges II-2 (18.5 mm), manual unguals II (10 mm), metacarpals III (one distal; ~23 mm), phalanges III-1 (one partial; 4.9 mm), phalanx III-2 (4.2 mm), phalanges III-3 (12 mm), manual unguals III (6.5 mm), manual claw sheaths, ilium (~27.5 mm), pubis (40 mm), ischia (~16 mm), incomplete femora (~46.5 mm), tibiae (~71.5 mm), fibula (69.5 mm), astragali, calcanea, two distal tarsals, metatarsals I, phalanges I-1 (7.1 mm), pedal ungual I (5.2 mm), metatarsals II (~36 mm), phalanges II-1 (~8 mm), phalanges II-2 (~8 mm), pedal unguals II (7, 7.4 mm), metatarsals III (40.5 mm), phalanges III-1 (10.8 mm), phalanges III-2 (8.5 mm), phalanges III-3 (8.4 mm), pedal unguals III (6.8, 7 mm), metatarsal IV (37 mm), phalanx IV-1 (8 mm), phalanx IV-2 (6 mm), phalanges IV-3 (~5.5 mm), phalanges IV-4 (7 mm), pedal unguals IV (6.2 mm), metatarsal V (~10 mm), pedal claw sheaths, remiges, retrices (Wellnhofer, 1993)